Youre wrong. Sproul Jr.s excommunication. The fact that he felt ok about this statement says a lot of about an addict's powers of denial. I needed that sort of help. No one would have faulted Sproul for signing up for an eHarmony or Christian Mingle account. H.A. What will the families of alcoholics and drug abusers do? I do not support enabling R.C. But I also fully agree with you. There is no cause and effect, no correlation at all, between RC Jrs family deaths and his heavy drinking. I was on the road when it hit, Loma Prieta, things collapsing the road buckling and our house was thrashed though we did not know it until it sold a few years later during the inspection while selling it and we took a big loss on it; Foundational and chimney issues. For another example allong another line, what about people who make a career out of being hurt, like the current epidemic of snowflakes. To me, the word excommunicate evokes a ceremonial process, in which a congregation is informed that a certain member is no longer a member. But to take that info and post it here? Or we edit the comment by replacing the word codependent with some other word, and then publish the comment. Most alcoholics go to in-patient treatment programs for 30 days to 90 days. To an Alky, the Constitutional Right to My Next Drink cannot be infringed in any way. All the years of being there listening to the beratement and anger gave me the ability to listen as well to the pain and fear. If it is incorrect then Im not seeing it. He was also driving at 30 mph for at least 2 miles with a flat tire on I-469. Neither one ever gave up the booze though, although with RC Srs poor health (multiple strokes) he may be drinking less than he did. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): Yes, he shouldnt have been on Ashley Madison, but hed lost his wife to cancer and was probably lonely. It doesnt take any effort to destroy such a lame excuse. This Wikipedia article covers things like the Ashley Madison scandal and his defrocking. This means that someone else (or more than one) has allowed RCSJ to continue in this sin (drunkenness is defined as sin in the Bible), even to the point of endangering the lives of children. Sigh. Sproul, Jr. has a serious drinking problem; The body has many parts. misunderstood her. From that day forward, he chose not to drink. 30-90 day inpatient treatment is cost prohibitive for a lot of people, even if they wanted to go. Youve posted several comments about this and never mentioned that Sproul 2s church should get him into treatment for alcoholism (and whatever else ails him). H.A. so terrifying. The parents would always come home much later than they had said. Just as people say, Guns do not kill people, people kill people. So also, alcohol is not the problem, but the people who abuse it. This was still a ways off, so I turned into the first driveway and waited. There is usually a reason when people have strong feelings of negativity, and this issue triggers emotional responses from many of us. And what about all of the other people in the pews who watch that go downwho have problems? Hopefully they get to Al-Anon and counseling. I do know that most Christian people do believe that Christ died for them out of love for them, not to satisfy a wrathful entity who despises them. I had to go things alone, with the depression and the death of a family member. Sprouls case and how he should be treated, that I NEVER said. It sounds so evil. Id also add that AA, in the case of one of my family members, after he stopped drinking, contributed to his so-called stinking thinking. And yes, we must continue to pray. Has that been reported on or discussed? Being Married to a Pedophile: A Wife Speaks Out and Offers Hope to Other Wives ofPedophiles, Bodily Autonomy, Reproductive Rights, and the Christian Patriarchy Motion The Revealer - Olusolacoker.com, Bodily Autonomy, Reproductive Rights, and the Christian Patriarchy Movement The Revealer, Claire Roise: Oppressed and Defenseless Women within the Church, Flying Free: Help for Survivors of Emotional Abuse, Lori Anne Thompson on Clergy Sexual Misconduct. Thank you. Yes, indeed; RC Sproul Snr (and his buddy MacArthur) is one of the most dangerous false teachers around, spewing forth a false gospel; and wasnt he the one who had advocated that Christians (his version of it) should watch filthy movies and so on? Not impossible. Methinks you proclaimed the gospel. I needed that sort of help. It is one thing for someone like R.C. If you posted something negative about Dee or Barb at my blog as you have here, Id remove your comment, too. Abuse is a different issue. Acting like a sixteen-year-old boy is not manly, it is obnoxious and childish. Only in the past few months have I started posting a little here. 5, it is the opportunity Ive been looking for, as pastors dont really teach and preach about this much maybe that is part of the problem. Most revealing are the forums and blogs by ex members. Each situation is different. Just as I pray for them, too. Velour wrote: I have no doubt that I have a guardian angel (maybe more than one!). came to pick me up in his car. RC Sproul Sr was, at least in RC Jrs formative years, a heavy smoker and drinker and set the example for his son. Isnt there some kind of authoritative oversight in the Presbyterian denomination? They do recommend tough love including setting boundaries as you also said you support. Nobody kicked her out. This assumes that the prior trauma is causing the current opinion, which may or may not be the case, and it assumes that the idea (water) is drawn from a poisoned well (someone with prior trauma) and therefore is tainted not because of what is said but rather because of who said it. (We lived out in the country.) wrote: This man needs help. They will not change who the man fundamentally is. I am a hardliner. And even if they want it sometimes its too difficult. I am an old-school Southern Baptist who feels Christians would do well just to leave alcohol alone (period). 5000 COUNTY ROAD 46A Sanford, FL ROBERT SPROUL OBITUARY Sproul, Robert R.C. I can choose not to and on very rare occasions (maybe twice in five years) Ive forgotten to. The repairs needed to be done from his unit, and he had a simple and logical solution other than letting the plumber into his unit for repairs: If You Just Stop Using Your Shower, We Wont Have a Problem! Made all the sense in the world to him. That prison sentence was suspended and he was remanded to 1 year active adult probation. Spinderella Sproul web article. Im sorry for all this, its just that fathers day was very hard for me this year. But putting him out of the church does not stop him getting that assistance. Thats just not cool. It is a gift. I speak at CR on behalf of educating, as well as other community organizations supporting families such as AA. Third Woman Victim of Tullian Tchividjians Seduction Gives Details; She Reportedly Extends Timeline of His Adulteries Back into2013, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part1, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part2, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part3, Survivor of Tullian Tchividjians Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse Goes Public with Her Story Part4, Tullian Tchividjian Partial Timeline of Alleged Clergy Sexual Abuse and SpiritualAbuse, Pastors Tullian Tchividjian + Bob Coy + Sexual Sin + Church Leaders Who Protect Immoral Pastors = A BrokenChurch, Tullian Tchividjian Stripped of Pastor Credentials; Continues Speaking Behind the Pulpits of Twitter andFacebook, Greg Morse at Desiring God Laments StrongWomen. Clearly. I would ask that you not use it again though. I know someone who has been banned from Barbaras blog for using the term codependency, which Barbara doesnt permit. Pennsylvania. 4. She can run her blog how she likes. This is not a hill to die on and one of the purposes of the blog is to understand the point of view of others. You have a good heart. You responded to me that you think that Sproul 2: should be put out based on his ongoing chronic abuse behaviors, some behaviors that have not been mentioned here (including his abuse of alcohol which has put kids in harms way).. Sr. CAN cut off the paychecks. Thanks for giving us that information. If one has not read the Adult children of alcoholic books, dont consider yourself educated on this matter. Yes to all. Most of us are in agreement that Sproul Jr. needs treatment for alcoholism. The church frequently blows it on things like this, without proper training and guidance. I did read your post, Daisy. My concern about Barbaras comment is that at no time did she mention in-patient medical treatment for R.C. Hurting people.. can be either used wisely or used combatively depending on the circumstances. I didnt say if they should be kicked out or not. I, too, have been very disappointed in this thread. Our sin is as sinful as is his. Both were over the top, heavy drinkers, and very full of themselves. @ Max: One theme Im getting from your numerous replies, and in spite of your protests to the contrary, is that a persons alcoholism should out-weight all else, and excuse that person. RC2 is doing this having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Paul said in this same verse to Avoid such people.. In fact, they need to drink quantities, just to feel normal and function normally. But then (if Im remembering right), at some point in the progression of the disease, they cross some boundary and reach the point where they cant hold their liquor anymore. I found learning about that topic very helpful to me my mother was raised in a home filled with alcoholism and domestic violence). Thanks for your response, thoughts, and viewpoint. This is beyond shocking. I have had plastic surgery three times. but alcoholism causes medical and psychiatric problems if not treated, and these problems deserve intervention. In fact, wine, not unfermented grape juice, is viewed as a good gift of the Lord (Ps. He has made some very poor choices, many of which have directly harmed his family. Hopefully one day our judicial system will get that. tough love. Its a term that comes up often in CR meetings. Unbelievers have often accused Christians of Dark Ages thinking. But for a professing believer to attack other believers in such a manner is disturbing. If he wants church support, hes going to have to change churches, I think. When I was a month away from turning 13, I was invited by a friend to go to Myrtle Beach with her and her parents. Good for him. He pleaded no contest to one and the rest were dismissed. I dont recall ever treating Velour in that fashion. So youre uncomfortable with those truths. People who dont even pick up a drink can have unhealthy behaviors. How did his parents handle their sons defrocking in 2006? It runs in the family and has only one Redemptive Hope for each and all who hear the Gospel and by Grace and through Faith put their full Hope in the Righteousness of Christ to Cover (atone for) all mysin or your sin. You are correct. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. keggers). Jr. sounds like hes running a cult, not a Presbyterian Church. Try several different meetings and find one thats a good fit for you. I believe I may have been on this blog longer than Velour has, though Ive not been posting here as much the last 2 3 months. Would you please clarify what training you have, paid or unpaid, with substance abuse? A man with enough of a track record to be REJECTED by the Presbyterian Church in America when he sought to have his ordination accepted there as a Teaching Elder and opted to go the micro denom route. Ones dad ritually abused her as a baby, and another one doesnt even know his dad. I feel as though I was being unjustly attacked by her. Hope makes not ashamed. Even though they were on the same comment, i didnt mean to apply that brown comment to your situation, but generally to the use of alcohol to dull pain. He was 78. With Barbara because he does need to be put out of the church as a minister (and that needs to be permanent) and as a member (although that could potentially be temporary). As for whether or not other believers part company with him that situation is delineated by Christ Jesus Himself in Matthew 18. This isnt NEW behavior, this is the same old thing playing out with slightly different circumstances. And here is the moderators response to Cortney: Cortney, your story is not an isolated incident. But R.C. Drunkenness is also condemned. He was a staunch defender of the inerrancy of the Bible. When asked we can offer suggestions where they might find help. Today that little churchis her home church. Talk about a great way of destroying the faith of children! Now that Im grown and look back on that, I realize even more clearly how serious a situation that could have become if he had had a few too many, driving home on twisting mountain roads in the pouring rain. . So, you feel that Sproul Jr should be fired as pastor but be allowed to sit in a church as a regular member, yes or no? Its also not public information. There is more than one issue going on with RC2: alcoholism, spiritual abuse, unrepentant heart, etc. Its very revealing. Thanks for sharing. Please stop. I am not the one who is talking about diagnosis or treatment variables. I know that you have been negatively impacted by your family members alcoholism. I believe you missed the intent of Dees post. The obituary was featured in Orlando Sentinel on December 15, 2017. Your opinions are important and need to be validated. I am not defending excommunication in any way. My DSMIV refers to substance related disorders, general alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, etc. Im wondering if a 2018 resolution will be about depravity or the elect???? Some medications break the cycle the body is running on-producing anxiety. @ refugee: These men have made fortunes off the backs of faithful, trusting people. I was very clear that R.C. Perhaps you missed my list up the thread from last night. I dont get your reasoning on any of this. I will say this if this was just a pew sitter he would have been gone years ago tossed on the trash heap. They and their families are all the better for it. Unless dad helped him in starting his own churches. It is remarkable how LITTLE one can do for an addict if the addict doesnt want help. I am so glad for the help that you gave to people in our area (Silicon Valley). 2008 - 2023 INTERESTING.COM, INC. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly,died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. @ H.A. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: Vesta Sproul: Advice for Young Converts NonConformist Ministries 38 subscribers 7.3K views 2 years ago In this video Andy Woodard of NonConformist Ministries interviews Vesta Sproul, wife of. That was great for the money I was paid, but the dad would be so drunk, he could hardly keep the car on the road (forget about the correct lane) as he took me home. My friend's injuries were so severe that she was in the hospital at UNC for months and months. (Expire a life, or innocence or a reputation, or a familys resources, etc.) I seems you didnt get the joke. This is beyond shocking to me. More than that, how do you know what their drinking habits are? Im posting the list again from a few comments ago. My cousin and wife were heroin addicts, their children suffered from neglect, were removed to foster homes.damage done. We had connections with the San Jose Police dept, Good Samaritan Hospital, The Foundry School, The Bill Wilson House, Teen Challenge, Victory Outreach etc,etc. I was raised with the reality that people know what you are doing and it all comes back on you-at school, at church, in your social circle, on the job and wherever. Actually, at the end of the day he was responsible for his choices. The pain is awful, particularly when loved ones have been snatched away because someone foolishly chose to drink and drive. I have observed and experienced this truth throughout my own life. Im posting the list again from a few comments ago, alcohol dependence, etc. Jr.! Even know his dad 's injuries were so severe that she was in the pews watch... 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